<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Why Good Debt is a Lie</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.squawkfox.com/2008/02/29/why-good-debt-is-a-lie/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.squawkfox.com/2008/02/29/why-good-debt-is-a-lie/</link>
	<description>Where personal finance &#38; frugal living are sexy, delicious, and fun.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 07 Feb 2012 19:25:45 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Stan</title>
		<link>http://www.squawkfox.com/2008/02/29/why-good-debt-is-a-lie/comment-page-1/#comment-19101</link>
		<dc:creator>Stan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2009 03:39:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.squawkfox.com/2008/02/29/why-good-debt-is-a-lie/#comment-19101</guid>
		<description>&quot;Your home is not an investment, it is forced savings.&quot;

I agree it is forced savings, but I would think a home is an important part of a retirement portfolio.  The ability to live rent free, or to sell and move to a smaller home once the kids move out, or even a reverse mortgage are all great options and much safer than the stock market.

But the OP is right only if you use 0 down 25 year monthly amortization.  Complete waste of cash.  People should aim for better, say 25% down, 15 year bi-weekly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Your home is not an investment, it is forced savings.&#8221;</p>
<p>I agree it is forced savings, but I would think a home is an important part of a retirement portfolio.  The ability to live rent free, or to sell and move to a smaller home once the kids move out, or even a reverse mortgage are all great options and much safer than the stock market.</p>
<p>But the OP is right only if you use 0 down 25 year monthly amortization.  Complete waste of cash.  People should aim for better, say 25% down, 15 year bi-weekly.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Brien</title>
		<link>http://www.squawkfox.com/2008/02/29/why-good-debt-is-a-lie/comment-page-1/#comment-14352</link>
		<dc:creator>Brien</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 May 2009 12:01:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.squawkfox.com/2008/02/29/why-good-debt-is-a-lie/#comment-14352</guid>
		<description>...a very polarizing post. What I found most interesting about the post (and the comments) is that everyone leaves important details that defeat their position. The numbers you used were concrete, but the comparrisons were apples and oranges (as many pointed out); but the commenter&#039;s who lobbed numbers back at you left out so many important details, their arguments were equally invalid.

Rent where I live is equal to the cost of a first mortgage on the property. If the property owner put 40% down on the property, then they are making money on the rental. That is good debt. in this scenario, someone who has to take out a first and a second on a property is going to pay significantly more per month to own than a 40% down buyer. Renting is probably a better idea.   

There are all sorts of variables that could totally invalidate that last paragraph. Interest only loans, down payment on a home vs that same money in a portfolio, bad property market, bad rental market...I think the best take away points of blog and comments are these: 

Your home is not an investment, it is forced savings. 
Live within your means. Understand that &quot;means&quot; does not equal &quot;the largest burden your paycheck can bear&quot;

What I would love to see is an article about how to estimate optimal rent/car/savings/investment ratios.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230;a very polarizing post. What I found most interesting about the post (and the comments) is that everyone leaves important details that defeat their position. The numbers you used were concrete, but the comparrisons were apples and oranges (as many pointed out); but the commenter&#8217;s who lobbed numbers back at you left out so many important details, their arguments were equally invalid.</p>
<p>Rent where I live is equal to the cost of a first mortgage on the property. If the property owner put 40% down on the property, then they are making money on the rental. That is good debt. in this scenario, someone who has to take out a first and a second on a property is going to pay significantly more per month to own than a 40% down buyer. Renting is probably a better idea.   </p>
<p>There are all sorts of variables that could totally invalidate that last paragraph. Interest only loans, down payment on a home vs that same money in a portfolio, bad property market, bad rental market&#8230;I think the best take away points of blog and comments are these: </p>
<p>Your home is not an investment, it is forced savings.<br />
Live within your means. Understand that &#8220;means&#8221; does not equal &#8220;the largest burden your paycheck can bear&#8221;</p>
<p>What I would love to see is an article about how to estimate optimal rent/car/savings/investment ratios.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Richer by the Day &#187; A Case for Interest Only Mortgages</title>
		<link>http://www.squawkfox.com/2008/02/29/why-good-debt-is-a-lie/comment-page-1/#comment-4255</link>
		<dc:creator>Richer by the Day &#187; A Case for Interest Only Mortgages</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Oct 2008 15:00:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.squawkfox.com/2008/02/29/why-good-debt-is-a-lie/#comment-4255</guid>
		<description>[...] had a great article about how renting can make you rich.  I was led there by squawkfox&#8217;s Why Good Debt is a Lie.   Other informative posts on topic come from Millionaire Mommy Next Door including Rent versus [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] had a great article about how renting can make you rich.  I was led there by squawkfox&#8217;s Why Good Debt is a Lie.   Other informative posts on topic come from Millionaire Mommy Next Door including Rent versus [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Confused</title>
		<link>http://www.squawkfox.com/2008/02/29/why-good-debt-is-a-lie/comment-page-1/#comment-2565</link>
		<dc:creator>Confused</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Aug 2008 23:53:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.squawkfox.com/2008/02/29/why-good-debt-is-a-lie/#comment-2565</guid>
		<description>In general I agree with your assessment of debt but you are incorrect in that there is no good debt.

Mortgage debt is good debt and I will explain why.  While you are quite right to suggest that a home is not an investment and that the total costs of home ownership are much more than just the mortgage, a home for most people is a great forced savings plan.  Even if home prices just manage to keep up with inflation as you suggest you are still better off than renting.

To use your example, assume that the inflation rate averages 3% over the 25 years.  That means all else being equal your $325,000 home would be worth just over $680,000.  The total cost of the house plus the interest payments, by your calculator, is just over $658,000.  Therefore you have basically capitalized your interest payments as you will get them all back when you sell.  At this point you are roughly $22,000 ahead.

Lets assume that property taxes and maintenance will cost about $200,000 over the 25 years ($5,000 intital guess adjusted every year for the same 3% inflation rate and then rounded up to the nearest $100k).  I neglect house insurance as it is insignificant to total cost.  The net cost of the house over the 25 years is therefore approximately $178,000 which averages just under $600 per month. That handily beats the assumption of the $1,000 per month rent.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In general I agree with your assessment of debt but you are incorrect in that there is no good debt.</p>
<p>Mortgage debt is good debt and I will explain why.  While you are quite right to suggest that a home is not an investment and that the total costs of home ownership are much more than just the mortgage, a home for most people is a great forced savings plan.  Even if home prices just manage to keep up with inflation as you suggest you are still better off than renting.</p>
<p>To use your example, assume that the inflation rate averages 3% over the 25 years.  That means all else being equal your $325,000 home would be worth just over $680,000.  The total cost of the house plus the interest payments, by your calculator, is just over $658,000.  Therefore you have basically capitalized your interest payments as you will get them all back when you sell.  At this point you are roughly $22,000 ahead.</p>
<p>Lets assume that property taxes and maintenance will cost about $200,000 over the 25 years ($5,000 intital guess adjusted every year for the same 3% inflation rate and then rounded up to the nearest $100k).  I neglect house insurance as it is insignificant to total cost.  The net cost of the house over the 25 years is therefore approximately $178,000 which averages just under $600 per month. That handily beats the assumption of the $1,000 per month rent.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: telly</title>
		<link>http://www.squawkfox.com/2008/02/29/why-good-debt-is-a-lie/comment-page-1/#comment-2549</link>
		<dc:creator>telly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Aug 2008 13:39:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.squawkfox.com/2008/02/29/why-good-debt-is-a-lie/#comment-2549</guid>
		<description>Great post!

I&#039;m also scared of debt (it gives me the serious heebie jeebies!) but I have to admit, there are a couple areas of debt that don&#039;t haunt me quite as much.  I actually refer to them as &quot;good debt&quot;. :O

The 1st is two rental properties that we own that are, and always have been cash flow positive over the course of the years.  The other is our margin account where the dividends received are greater than the interest paid.  This debt doesn&#039;t seem to bother me.

The home mortgage though, that bothers me.  We have a pretty tiny mortgage (to go with a pretty tiny house :)) that will be paid off within 10 years of purchase and your mortgage calculator tells me buying will surpass renting after 5 years.  Since we&#039;re at 4.5 now, I don&#039;t feel too bad about this one. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post!</p>
<p>I&#8217;m also scared of debt (it gives me the serious heebie jeebies!) but I have to admit, there are a couple areas of debt that don&#8217;t haunt me quite as much.  I actually refer to them as &#8220;good debt&#8221;. :O</p>
<p>The 1st is two rental properties that we own that are, and always have been cash flow positive over the course of the years.  The other is our margin account where the dividends received are greater than the interest paid.  This debt doesn&#8217;t seem to bother me.</p>
<p>The home mortgage though, that bothers me.  We have a pretty tiny mortgage (to go with a pretty tiny house <img src='http://www.squawkfox.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> ) that will be paid off within 10 years of purchase and your mortgage calculator tells me buying will surpass renting after 5 years.  Since we&#8217;re at 4.5 now, I don&#8217;t feel too bad about this one. <img src='http://www.squawkfox.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Dana</title>
		<link>http://www.squawkfox.com/2008/02/29/why-good-debt-is-a-lie/comment-page-1/#comment-2397</link>
		<dc:creator>Dana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Aug 2008 20:48:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.squawkfox.com/2008/02/29/why-good-debt-is-a-lie/#comment-2397</guid>
		<description>Love this post!  Man, this should be on the front page of cnn.com!  This should be taught in schools!  We well into the &quot;got to own a house&quot; to be successful trap!  The housing market sucks right now.  I now owe more then I paid almost 5 years ago - now that is some funky math.  We hope to sell it in 2 years time.  Then we will go back to renting... and be so much richer!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Love this post!  Man, this should be on the front page of cnn.com!  This should be taught in schools!  We well into the &#8220;got to own a house&#8221; to be successful trap!  The housing market sucks right now.  I now owe more then I paid almost 5 years ago &#8211; now that is some funky math.  We hope to sell it in 2 years time.  Then we will go back to renting&#8230; and be so much richer!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Bunny</title>
		<link>http://www.squawkfox.com/2008/02/29/why-good-debt-is-a-lie/comment-page-1/#comment-599</link>
		<dc:creator>Bunny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Apr 2008 16:46:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.squawkfox.com/2008/02/29/why-good-debt-is-a-lie/#comment-599</guid>
		<description>Honey, you&#039;re so smart... nice article...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Honey, you&#8217;re so smart&#8230; nice article&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Bob</title>
		<link>http://www.squawkfox.com/2008/02/29/why-good-debt-is-a-lie/comment-page-1/#comment-587</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Apr 2008 23:05:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.squawkfox.com/2008/02/29/why-good-debt-is-a-lie/#comment-587</guid>
		<description>What about this scenario:

We own and live in a 3,300 sqr ft fully developed 3 year old house that is worth $550,000.00 at current values. 

It is fully loaded with Air Cond, Brazilian Cherry hardwood floors, Stainless Steel applicances, 5 bedrooms, and 4 bathrooms etc. 

It&#039;s a great house in a great location within 15 minutes drive of downtown.

We pay $1,350 per month on an interest-only mortgage that never needs to be paid off. (Think of what time and inflation will do to the principal over the next 40 years. Similar to buying a house in the 70&#039;s for only $50,000.00. Time murders principals.) 

We also benefit from the 3-4% annualized growth of the value of our house over the next 40 years.

Our property tax is $200.00 per month.

Insurance is about $60.00 per month.

Maintenance is about $100.00 per month.

Now I know that interest rates may go up but even if they do, I think we are still better off than a renter.

What renter could match this scenario?

Who is better off here? 

A renter or us?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What about this scenario:</p>
<p>We own and live in a 3,300 sqr ft fully developed 3 year old house that is worth $550,000.00 at current values. </p>
<p>It is fully loaded with Air Cond, Brazilian Cherry hardwood floors, Stainless Steel applicances, 5 bedrooms, and 4 bathrooms etc. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s a great house in a great location within 15 minutes drive of downtown.</p>
<p>We pay $1,350 per month on an interest-only mortgage that never needs to be paid off. (Think of what time and inflation will do to the principal over the next 40 years. Similar to buying a house in the 70&#8242;s for only $50,000.00. Time murders principals.) </p>
<p>We also benefit from the 3-4% annualized growth of the value of our house over the next 40 years.</p>
<p>Our property tax is $200.00 per month.</p>
<p>Insurance is about $60.00 per month.</p>
<p>Maintenance is about $100.00 per month.</p>
<p>Now I know that interest rates may go up but even if they do, I think we are still better off than a renter.</p>
<p>What renter could match this scenario?</p>
<p>Who is better off here? </p>
<p>A renter or us?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: misanthropope</title>
		<link>http://www.squawkfox.com/2008/02/29/why-good-debt-is-a-lie/comment-page-1/#comment-542</link>
		<dc:creator>misanthropope</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Mar 2008 04:08:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.squawkfox.com/2008/02/29/why-good-debt-is-a-lie/#comment-542</guid>
		<description>so you would sincerely advise a student of limited means but MIT grades and test scores, to go part-time to a community college instead?  

university education, home-buying, and starting one&#039;s own business are all situations where taking on debt can immediately and significantly improve one&#039;s &quot;balance sheet&quot;.  of course, some careful shopping is in order before making such decisions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>so you would sincerely advise a student of limited means but MIT grades and test scores, to go part-time to a community college instead?  </p>
<p>university education, home-buying, and starting one&#8217;s own business are all situations where taking on debt can immediately and significantly improve one&#8217;s &#8220;balance sheet&#8221;.  of course, some careful shopping is in order before making such decisions.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Frank</title>
		<link>http://www.squawkfox.com/2008/02/29/why-good-debt-is-a-lie/comment-page-1/#comment-541</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Mar 2008 03:25:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.squawkfox.com/2008/02/29/why-good-debt-is-a-lie/#comment-541</guid>
		<description>Wow! Intelligence on the internet. Amazing! Keep it up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow! Intelligence on the internet. Amazing! Keep it up.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

